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Post by edmontongreg on Jun 4, 2012 7:56:58 GMT -5
just finished the second course. Gotta love training, now I am more confident in what I am doing.
The first weekend the homephobes (phobes) were all in a pack. there were more of them. they were so unfriendly even the others noticed. they didn't socialize or mingle. They appeared to be like a marine unit.
The first weekend was all text book stuff, so it was not too bad for me.
The second weekend was all practical. Saturday they broke the class into three groups, our department had 6 there, so we were one group. We managed to do the scenarios first. There were some issues, but thats why it is training.
One the second scenario, the phobes all got their gear on as they wanted to go first. Instructor had us go first. The head phobe just about lost it. He was glaring at instructor and us.
Saturday night after the class I went to go for supper with some Firefighters from another department, my guys were amped on Chinese. Not me, i won't touch it.
We got to a restaurant and were sitting and the phobe unit showed up. We asked to join them. In seating I was next to the guy from the first course, the one that was my buddy first weekend and wearing the 'Exit Only' sign the second weekend.
I was a bit nervous, but it was manageable. After almost dying, you kind of think these things are petty. Not nice, but a pain.
The discussion was all lead by them. They were like Alabamans they all hunted, bow and rifle. They passed around their pics like family pics. The head phobe talked and talked and talked. He seemed to have his eyes on me all the time. I am not a hunter, but it was good comedy.
They all work for him. They run their small fire department like a military unit. I swear their wives see them occasionally. If one were to watch these guys i guess I'd see why they were sensitive on the gay issues. They would appear to be gay.
Anyway, on the Sunday, the phobes were going good all day, until the last run of the test. A guys radio jammed and incident command lost contact for whole scenario. they being do or die, decided to do.
The testor mentioned this specifically, he said he was a nice guy. But he was very close to failing them all. Safety is the first concern and if you cant communicate with incident command......well karma's a bitch.
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Post by edmontongreg on Nov 18, 2013 18:00:10 GMT -5
This is a hybrid offense, but since the place of the occurrence was our Barn, It is a fire issue.
We have a new Sergeant at the RCMP detachment in town. He's gay and i think he is married, or at least has a common law partner. I am not sure how to tell one of the two other gay guys in town I am on the team. BTW the other one is a drug dealer, so I don't hang with him either.
So the Chief had a BBQ last night. He invited all of the First Responders in town as well as town council (old and new).
The emcee for the night was a Fire Captain - the Captain, introduced all the Councillors and their spouses and then he went on to introduce the RCMP Sergeant.......I was waiting for the 'and his partner, spouse. It never came. I am not sure if the Sergeant and his partner asked not to have the spouse introduced. But the guy's sexuality and his partner information are all over town.....it was the elephant in the room.
Not wanting to correct higher ups on faux pas's I said nothing. But I got to thinking what would happen if it were my partner?
I can say if I had the balls to take a guy, I'd damn well want to let my station know who he was.
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Post by TheBear on Nov 19, 2013 18:19:48 GMT -5
Hi Greg,
I definitely see your point. There are so many inequities that still exist. At my age, being from a VERY different era, even I feel uncomfortable as a now almost completely "OUT" gay man when someone is introduced as "... and his husband" in a mixed group. But why should I? As you point out, it is an OPENLY known relationship. Trying to examine my own feelings, I do not have any qualm about, say, an introduction such as... "and his partner 'Bill' (or Mr. Jones... whomever.)" So, why should I - an openly gay man - feel a little strange about "husband"? For that matter, in a group setting where I sense disapproval, why do I revert to my well-practiced skills of editing my pronouns when speaking of friends and suddenly become "orientation invisible"?
In 2007, I was at an Employee Appreciation BBQ for the employees and volunteers of VITAS Hospice in the San Francisco bay area. The General Manager is gay and it is openly known this partner (husband?) is the Admissions Nurse for the hospice. During the Introductions and Remarks part of the BBQ, the General Manager introduced his partner... "and you all know the 'First Lady of Hospice'... my partner Alex." Everybody - and I do mean EVERYbody cheered.
But, that was in the San Francisco area. It was also the hospice where, when my internship was over, the head medical nurse, a straight woman, came to me and said, "If you come to work for us, we'll even find you a new boyfriend." WOW... hard to pass up a job offer and perc like that!!! As a "junior-senior" gay man, I was taken aback by the total openness and COMPLETE acceptance. THEY were more open and accepting that I had ever known. Freedom feels odd when one has never been free.
Still, you have a very legitimate point on this issue, Greg. In different police/fire/EMS departments, acceptance and protocol are FAR from equal OR equitable (and there is a difference.)
I would like others in our BluePride forum to jump in here. After all, ten years after the Supreme Court struck down the anti-sodomy laws in Lawrence vs. Texas (and in 14 states,) there are many (U.S.) states that still have strict de facto anti-sodomy statues in spite of the court. Hate comes from Fear which comes from IGNORANCE... and there is still plenty of that out there.
What does everyone else think? I think this is a very useful thread and THREE CHEERS for US in having a forum in which to discuss it!
Bear _____________________.
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Post by hcsodale on Nov 19, 2013 22:12:57 GMT -5
Introduce yourself! Restrain any inclinations you might have for "checking either of them out", but show that you can carry an interesting conversation about anything else, the job, the party, the host, etc. If the conversation lasts more than a few minutes, one will probably introduce the other, and hopefully give you the definitive answer you are looking for. If they bring up they are partners, express how glad you are for them and bring into the conversation how you felt you were almost the only gay law enforcement/firefighter in town. Don't get into the inequality of the introductions unless they bring it up, since like you mentioned, that might be exactly how they wanted it. Hopefully you will make a positive impression on them for future occasions, like having dinner somewhere (neutral) until you can see a mutual friendship start. Maybe they will introduce you to a friend. You have to make friends to meet friends.
At a function like that, where it is mixed company, and not weighted to our side, why do we have to announce our sexuality. Let people learn it by meeting us for who we are, not which team we play on. As they learn who we are and through rumors, it will come out anyway. By then it will be "just matter of fact" and then nobody has to make any "announcements." FOR ME, I just let people learn about me without my having to break down walls. There have been times and places for breaking down walls, but I feel that more people are less fearful or afraid when being gay is just treated like an everyday thing and not a broadcast news announcement. Just MY opinion.
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Post by burner on Nov 20, 2013 3:25:46 GMT -5
Hi Greg,
I definitely see your point. There are so many inequities that still exist. At my age, being from a VERY different era, even I feel uncomfortable as a now almost completely "OUT" gay man when someone is introduced as "... and his husband" in a mixed group. But why should I? As you point out, it is an OPENLY known relationship. Trying to examine my own feelings, I do not have any qualm about, say, an introduction such as... "and his partner 'Bill' (or Mr. Jones... whomever.)" So, why should I - an openly gay man - feel a little strange about "husband"? ...... What does everyone else think? I think this is a very useful thread and THREE CHEERS for US in having a forum in which to discuss it!
Bear _____________________.Bear, I see Greg's point, but I also see your point as well. You and I ARE from a very different era (are The Crusades over yet?) and although I am married to Steve I wouldn't feel comfortable introducing him as my "husband" in a mixed group or otherwise. Like you, I have no qualms or hesitation introducing him as my partner.
A lot of it is generational, to be sure. When I was growing up there were no "lesbians", only "gay men and gay women" Lesbians were inhabitants of the Greek island of Lesbos, period. It took me YEARS to adopt the politically correct designation that the younger female "family members" prefer (women my age still call themselves "gay women"). And the "reclaiming" and use by the younger generation of the word queer drives me up a wall! I reject it completely and cringe when I hear it used by our own. I know there are those who may disagree, but that's what it's all about. I'm just too damned old to change, and no, I will NOT get rid of my rotary phone!
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Post by TheBear on Nov 20, 2013 8:36:00 GMT -5
(Burner wrote:) Bear, I see Greg's point, but I also see your point as well. You and I ARE from a very different era (are The Crusades over yet?) (clip) ...and no, I will NOT get rid of my rotary phone!
(Bear writes:) AH... dear, dear Burner: We are indeed from a different generation!
I digress a moment: No, the Crusades are NOT over yet. It is demonstrated in the (yet to be) year 2364... or the Year 1 (of the invention of warp drive, which, for year 1, does not correspond with the Gregorian calendar) the yet-to-happen confrontation with the Klingons will be another of the continuing campaigns of the Crusades.
...AND, you are RIGHT, Burner, the word "queer" makes me cringe. ... except for Julie Jordan, of course, being that I am currently in Stillwater, Oklahoma. (... that's a secret decoder ring message for any of you seniors who grew up on musicals.)
Returning to the golden age of Rotary Phones: Actually, YES, it happens to be an important part of the studied cohort in my dissertation: Generation Silent. Gen Silent are those of us born 1927-1945. SOLID rotary phone era. Burner and I qualify... as does Carroll (but he is recognized as our official BluePride star of the stage so he isn't technically "silent.") ... Oh, BTW, is Tommy a relative of Worf? I've always wondered about the head bumps but was hesitant to Boldly GO There.
OH OH OH... We have an exciting special offer in the BluePride Break Room this week. We have been loaned the replicator from the Enterprise. ANY type/flavor cookie you want... poof! (...which has nothing to do with "Poofers," which is quite a different thing.)
Okay... all of the above will surely give our group some good discussion topics!
The Julie Jordan stand-in, Bear ______________________________.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 9:22:06 GMT -5
I think the most important thing we can do, as LGBT criminal justice professionals, is to establish yourself as a hard working, reliable, person that can be trusted. Let them see you as a good cop first, than coming out as gay will be no big deal. I think that everyone should come out as soon as they are comfortable. We should remember that we do the gay community a big service by being visible. Law enforcement people gossip like old women. If you stay in the closet, sooner or later they will find out and they will resent your dishonesty. Staying in the closet also exposes you to constant gay jokes and put downs. By hiding your personal life, you will wind up lying about the identity of your spouse and you will devalue your relationship. I was always very professional in everything I did in law enforcement. I made sure that nobody could hold a candle to me when it came to doing my job. I kept a photo of my partner on my desk and I had no trouble joining into conversations, with staff members, about what we did on the weekend or where we went on vacation, or any other public aspect of my life. I also made sure that I did not fall into the trap of being the butt of humor. There was no gay humor about, or around, me. We must all be out, open and standing tall. that's how you gain the respect of your coworkers. And that same thing applies to those of us in corrections when dealing with coworkers or inmates. You must be professional at all times. If anyone tries to make being gay an issue, jump right on them and set them straight. Then get back to business. Don't EVER hesitate when you have to call someone out. Let them know that you take no crap and they will leave you alone.
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Post by edmontongreg on Nov 20, 2013 20:48:29 GMT -5
Introduce yourself! Restrain any inclinations you might have for "checking either of them out", but show that you can carry an interesting conversation about anything else, the job, the party, the host, etc. If the conversation lasts more than a few minutes, one will probably introduce the other, and hopefully give you the definitive answer you are looking for. If they bring up they are partners, express how glad you are for them and bring into the conversation how you felt you were almost the only gay law enforcement/firefighter in town. Don't get into the inequality of the introductions unless they bring it up, since like you mentioned, that might be exactly how they wanted it. Hopefully you will make a positive impression on them for future occasions, like having dinner somewhere (neutral) until you can see a mutual friendship start. Maybe they will introduce you to a friend. You have to make friends to meet friends. At a function like that, where it is mixed company, and not weighted to our side, why do we have to announce our sexuality. Let people learn it by meeting us for who we are, not which team we play on. As they learn who we are and through rumors, it will come out anyway. By then it will be "just matter of fact" and then nobody has to make any "announcements." FOR ME, I just let people learn about me without my having to break down walls. There have been times and places for breaking down walls, but I feel that more people are less fearful or afraid when being gay is just treated like an everyday thing and not a broadcast news announcement. Just MY opinion.
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Post by edmontongreg on Nov 20, 2013 20:56:43 GMT -5
hscodale - I tried that at the Remembrance Day celebrations. But he was like 'new meat' in a gay bar. Guys were all over him, his partner wasn't there. I tried to drop hints, but his gaydar must be as bad as mine - or my deflector screen is too good.
Some of you picked up on the point I think I was trying to make. I believe as we move to a more accepting society that we can't sit back and be complacent. We have to make sure we maintain the rights we have earned. This is a Canada, we are 10 years ahead of most of you. Gay bars are dying, so are gay papers. There is no sense of community anymore. As I told a straight cop, I was just trying to introduce myself to him to hang out.
As I said, if the day ever comes that I have a partner, I am sure that my friends and co-workers will know about it. I won't be having a parade, just be me with someone I care about.
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Post by hcsodale on Nov 21, 2013 21:41:49 GMT -5
Sorry Greg, guess I missed the main point and commented on the other, but I still feel the lack of introductions probably weren't a big deal.
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